the first thing i see
when i come into work, is the front page of The Globe and Mail. This week's papers made me very happy. the senate will be sitting [through their vacation] to vote on bill C38, and it is likely to pass within the next week. this was the most government action i've ever taken in my life. lots of calls and emails.
the funniest part is that now ralph klein wants alberta to stop legally recognizing marriages altogether. i call this the "if i can't have my way, no one will" tactic.
what a clown. luckily i never plan on living in alberta [aka- the bible belt of canada]. i could never live anywhere under shady politics like his.
when i come into work, is the front page of The Globe and Mail. This week's papers made me very happy. the senate will be sitting [through their vacation] to vote on bill C38, and it is likely to pass within the next week. this was the most government action i've ever taken in my life. lots of calls and emails.
the funniest part is that now ralph klein wants alberta to stop legally recognizing marriages altogether. i call this the "if i can't have my way, no one will" tactic.
what a clown. luckily i never plan on living in alberta [aka- the bible belt of canada]. i could never live anywhere under shady politics like his.
posted by Suzanne Zappia at 10:48 AM
10 Comments:
Jesusland North.
Most of the Conservative sound bytes lately have been reading like minutes from a Klan meeting. Political suicide on a non-political issue. Well done, lads.
Our system works, and it's awesome.
You're being pretty hypocritical. Obviously we’re on the same side of this political issue but it’s rather shallow to belittle the side you don’t agree with and their resolve to attempt to do whatever they can for what they believe in.
If the situation were reversed - and the supreme court had ruled in favor of the conservative view point that the definition of marriage should only include a man and a woman. If Ralph Klein decided to try and get around that ruling and find a way to permit gays and lesbians to marry in his province, you would consider him a hero.
In fact this is an identical parallel to what is going on in the United States. The mayor of San Francisco started licensing gay/lesbian marriages in direct violation of California’s state law and the overwhelming majority of gays lesbians and straight people with sympathetic view points, like myself, emboldened him with emails and cheered at the fight he was putting up.
So while I don’t agree with the conservative point of view I do respect that they’re working within the confines and laws of Canada to carry out what they were voted in by their constituents to do. Jesus Land isn’t confined to Alberta. Nova Scotia and New Brunswick for example are both run by Conservative provincial governments. They are the overwhelming opposition in the Parliament representing every province in Canada except for Quebec.
It’s not shady politics at all.
i am not being hypocritical.
i would never deny rights to the rest of my citizens in order to ensure that my enemy did not get what they wanted.
if klein had his way, alberta would no longer locally sanction any marriages at all in order to avoid having to do so for gay couples. this would mean people could *only* marry under the church or have to flee the province. this IS chady politics, because marriage is part of a federal jurisdiction, and no provincial government is "within the confines of the law" to take that away.
Marriage is a provincial jurisdiction. Not a ferdal jurisdiction at all. The only jurisidiction that the federal government has over marriage is to pass a law that defines what the word means.
If Ralph Kline were to force the province of Alberta to stop performing marriages then Chruch marriages would also not be performed because they use the exact same license as a civil wedding. There would be little point in a straight couple getting married in a religious service because they'd need to get a license at some point to be recognized as married. Meaning that Mr. Klein would also make it so that straight catholic couples would also have to head across the provincial border to get married.
Maybe they could carpool with the leather wearing gay biker men to Winnipeg.
Anyone can have a religious ceremony whenever the hell they'd like. Even under the new definition of marriage courts in more liberal provinces like Ontario cannot force a priest to marry a gay couple.
So for Mr. Kline it's marriage for all or marriage for none whatsoever which I don't think he has the political clout, backing or desire to do.
The fact that you refer to people who have a different view point than yours as the "enemy" is what I have contention with.
After all if you wanted to be technical about people's rights than the bible thumpers have the right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion under Canada's very cherished charter of rights and freedoms.
To argue that gay and lesbians rights to marry have precedence over the rights of others to practice what their religion dictates they must do is just as contentios a view point.
Would you speak out in horror if your next door neighbors religion involved killing puppies? Yet it's their chartered right to be able to practice their religion.
Rights and freedoms are never as cut and dry as we try and make them. The bottom line is that while you and I are on the same side of the same sex marriage issue, I won't demonize the bible belt for standing up for what they believe in either. I respect it because it's the fact that there is this debate that makes Canada great.
That's where the hypocrisy is involved.
If you want a true and moderate opinion then read one of the Globe and Mail's columnists. The gentleman's name escapes me but he is a reverand who has an openly gay son.
That's the kind of view point we should be trying to understand. Not the one where we create "enemies" and create scenarios where there has to be a winner and loser when it comes to someones human rights.
If the roles were reversed and Ralph Kline were trying to circumvent a law preventing gay couples from being married, you'd be hailing him as a modern day gay Jesus.
"The fact that you refer to people who have a different view point than yours as the "enemy" is what I have contention with."
i do not refer to people with different views as enemies- i used that phrase to exemplify the way klein regards the gay community, which he has said numerous times.
The marriage rights and obligations given to the provinces are set out in the Constitution. In the event that a provincial government cannot (or will not) do it's duty, the federal government would have to step in.
besides, i hardly think you can declaire hypocracy based on a hypothetical argument of "if"s. [ie: "you would be a hypocrit if... klein were defending gay marriage"]. i'm allowed to dislike those who go out of their way to ensure that my beliefs and my rights are undermined.
I have never found any quote or clipping where Kline has stated that the gay community was his "enemy". So you can't attribute that to him.
I'm declaring hypocrisy because you're willing to cry foul when the gay and lesbian communities human rights are in jepordy but lambast someone else when there human rights, namely their right to freedom of speech, freedom of representational government and freedom of religion are being excercised.
Remember that for the bible thumpers this isn't a personal issue that honestly believe that they themselves will go to hell if they don't do something to stand up for their beliefs. This isn't a personal grievence.
You're right that the marriage rights are set out in the constitution. But you're incorrect in thinking it's in the federal constitution. Marriage rights are protected in each provinces constitution. Each of which has different wording and provisions. The federal government has a charter of rights and freedoms that lays a framework for court challenges to all of the provinces constitutions.
By defining marriage the federal government didn't allow gay marriages at all. By defining marriages the federal government paved the way for supreme court challenges in each of the provinces to win and force those provinces to change their constitutions.
This is why gay marriages were legal in most provinces even before the federal ruling including the one that you live in and why two men can still not get married in Alberta today.
I don't doubt that there's a lot to be said on this issue, but something about when you two get together on one of these things makes you use so many freaking WORDS.
Also, this attack and retreat debate tactic Roo's been rockin lately is very negative-karmic.
"You're being pretty hypocritical. Obviously we’re on the same side of this political issue but... BABABABA".
Factually speaking, Klein's not particularly anti-gay. But religion, ever the bane of a free-thinking society, has clouded the political waters in his neck of the woods. He likes being elected, so here he is. Making a show of doing what he can so the Christ-ies keep on votin for him.
Politicians politikin.
yea, i've also noticed the attack-and-retreat tactic.. but these days i take what i can get from someone i don't get to see often.
also, just as a side note jon- 'roo' is a nickname kel gave to petrie, not 'kinnon.
Attack and retreat?
It isn't a tactic at all. If I found cute looking mice to inspire interesting discussion I'd speak up about it too.
Blogs are a public forum. That's why they're put on the internet. Public forums are read by people with different opinions. There's no such thing as a private blog unless it's password protected.
It's not a tactic or "negative karmic" to have a different opinion than others. It's also not a bad thing by any means for anyone, including me, to point out to someone who is making a public statement about defending the rights of a group is at the same time criticizing the excercising of another groups rights.
I think if someone's going to speak as an advocate of anything that they should be well informed as to what it is they're advocating. Well informed activists make a difference. Uninformed advocates are discounted and dismissed.
The gay and lesbian matrimonial movement needs more informed supporters not less Ralph Kleins.
It really doesn't matter what I say on blogs or freakpoint anymore. People like to characterize me as being negative, an asshole because of the lingering Melissa experience, mean intentioned or not caring in any way about people I'd known for years.
That's another example of people being uninformed and look where that's gotten me. I'm really just too tired to care at this point.
Don't be a dick.
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